Thursday, September 12, 2002

Lawsuit Dropped Against Cincinnati's Vice Mayor
Ok Mr. TV Reporter, why did they drop the lawsuit, or rather were any reasons given as to why the suit was being dropped? This suit was paper thin, and a bit of a set up by Ken Lawson, but it was made into a Federal case, literally. A civil RICO case, I did not even know that was possible. I guess Alicia Reese was not so brash when she was calling for Assistant City Solicitor Fagal's job on a platter. I wonder if 1230 the Buzz will bring this story to light; after all they had facilitated the near public conviction of her by their callers.
The Cincinnati Enquirer - Sept. 11, 2002 Photo Gallery
A very well done series of photographs.
P&G endorses light rail plans
This is a big shot in the arm for the light rail backers. I would guess P&G might add a few bucks to their campaign. What I wonder is that will the hoards of P&G employees, who I would say are a heavy majority Republican, vote for this? Questions on party affiliation beg a different question. Will party politics play a real role in this or will City vs. Suburbs be the real battle. That battle parallels the Democrats vs. Republicans competition in the county, but only in a general sense. This vote could go down to wire, and an edge like P&G might pull a rabbit out of the hate, or a few TV/Radio commercials, to save the day for light rail.
Apartment Complex Controversy Heats Up
It would appear that the county Republicans are pulling a Pontius Pilot on Huntington Meadows. Mike Allen appears to think this is all the City's Problem. Way to pass the buck!!! The county is not clean on this issue, and their desire for secrecy is something I see in conflict with the FOI Act. I do not see this as a national security issue, and if they are civilly liable, then tuff shit. The county suburbs can't just wash their hands in the river, and walk away from the people of the City. Sharing in the benefits of the City means you have to share the problems.

Wednesday, September 11, 2002

Police Say Bicyclist Firing On Pedestrians
This shooter sounds like a mental case. I would guess he does not own a car, so Indian Hill should be safe, for now.
State office tower evacuated in bomb scare
This situation appears to be a false alarm, but the facts indicate there was reason to be concerned. He seemed to have been hanging around the building for over four hours without a known valid reason. It seems someone screwed up in security.
CityBeat: Animal Rites

Yummy, Yummy, Yummy in my Tummy, Tummy, Tummy.
CityBeat: Your Negro Tour Guide
Kathy almost stays fair, but she holds on to the desire for revenge. If blacks are not paid reparations, she will want her grandchildren’s grandchildren to keep up the fight and seek money from my grandchildren's grandchildren. That is part of the fallacy. She and those who seek reparations, see this as whites paying blacks. Instead Latinos, Asians, Native Americans, Whites and Blacks will pay for their revenge. This whole idea is based on anger, hatred, and greed. Those who want the money want it to line their pockets, they want to gain power, and they want it to quell their psychosis of hatred towards whites. As long as Blacks are African-American, and not just Americans, there will be "racial problems." Money is not going to make you feel better. Revenge will not make you feel better. Subscribing to a progressive populist collectivism will not make you feel better. Separatism will not make you feel better. Being and individual person will make you feel better.
CityBeat: Party Poopers
I am shocked to say that this is a "News" article from City Beat. Maria Rogers did a good job of reporting Brinkman and Schaff's positions and history. If there was a bias, there was a slight bias for Brinkman. If anything Schaff got the shaft. (Sorry I have a thing for cliché puns.)
Message of integrity matters the most, Chief Streicher says
This line says the most:
Scotty Johnson, president of the Sentinel Police Association, a group of black officers, declined to comment.
If Johnson is not out saying much, I would guess that he either was told not to by Twitty, or he now knows Twitty was lying from the start. Either way, Johnson's silence helps quell the controversy for a while.
Ohio Building Evacuated After Scare
I hope this was a guy making a joke, and not some nut case. I am surprised this has not made the Cable news channels yet. They are either keeping everything out of the spotlight not in NY or DC, or they just see it as a hoax. Ohio Network News is covering the same events as CNN, so I guess there is nothing much to the story, or it is just not been released yet.
BRONSON: Sept. 11
Bronson, if you want people to remember, how else are they going to remember if they are not reminded of it? I guess you are against showing the Death Camps from WWII over and over again? Was Schindler's List just a horrible abomination to your fundamentalist eyes?
What is the point of remembering unless it is used like a grinding stone to sharpen our resolve? What is the point of dragging out the pictures of victims, unless we remember that the evil is still loose and must be killed?
I guess Peter is not a fan of history. I find it funny that he only wants us to act like he wants us to act. Why should I not want to remember without feeling all of the Jingoistic rage? Gee, I don't know why I don't want to feel like a crusted old gun toting bigoted anti-intellectual theocratic fascist? Isn't it odd that I don't want to be that? Is it Pete?
GUTIERREZ: One year later
I don't believe in fate, but I would feel odd if I had been in New York on the Day of 9/11.
I hate Bush Day on 1230 the Buzz
Now, I really am no George W. Bush fan. I did not vote for him, or any Republican for that matter. I don't really like him, and his mindset. However, some of the callers into the Buzz spouted unfounded and nearly slanderous comments about George Bush. The Nation of Islam followers and the some of boycott gang, also part of the NofI, are raising completely false propaganda claiming the conspiracy theories about 9/11. I wish the Buzz would screen out at least some of the racist callers, but I guess they would not have many callers.

Unfortunately Jay Love is playing up Nelson Mandela’s comments on Newsweek's website, where Mandela suggests the USA is usurping UN power because Kofi Annan is "a person of color," as Jay said. This quote sums up the problem with Mandela:
Why should there be one standard for one country, especially because it is black, and another one for another country, Israel, that is white.
If this attitude is shared by a large part of the media and intellectual class of the black community, then race relations are not going to get better. What is wrong with that quote, you might ask? The "black" country he is talking about is Iraq. Since when are the people of Iraq "black"? Racially speaking, Iraqi's and Israeli’s are not much, if at all different.

Note to Jay Love: The Nelson Mandela interview is not in the current issue of Newsweek. I looked page by page, before I went to the website. It is a Newsweek Web exclusive. Jay seems to only read the web version, and does not read the fine print on the page.
Tri-State Braces for Anniversary
A summary of the various local ceremonial events. The word "braces" seems to be misplaced to me.
Twitty plea deal brings anger, relief
Twitty takes a slap on the wrist and retires; yet people still think he was forced to accept it. Twitty got off light. He gets to retire with his pension intact, and a minor offense on his record. He can work or just play golf all day for the rest of his life. I do not see him as hurting much, other than his pride. Twitty obviously lied to the investigators, and also may have with held information. Either Twitty did this, or someone he knows did it. There was no "hit-skip." There was a violation of the law, a violation of the trust place in a high-ranking police officer. I hope the conflict over this case just goes away. If his supporters allow this to linger, they will only build more needless conflict.
For those interested in a no holds barred commentary on the 9/11 anniversary, please check out my "other" blog: PulpStalag the Blog. This is not for the faint of heart. I will not hold my tongue. I will speak out, exercise the freedom of the press, and of speech to present my thoughts and my ideas on what is happening on this day of remembrance. I will not be crude, but I will not give out many passes for what is said or done. I will add in posts on Cincinnati Area and Ohio where they fit. Let me know your thoughts on what is going on across the country.

Cincinnati Enquirer: America Remembers
Intelligent-design proponents seek spot in social-studies class
It would appear that ID is not going to be part of the Ohio State science curriculum, but barely. The religious groups supporting it are now trying to get it into social studies classes, while some on the state board are open to only putting it into a comparative religions class. It belongs in either a religion class or back in a philosophy class where it came from. As I have stated before, ID is nothing but a combination of the Cosmological and Teleological arguments for a "god". I do not see how any remotely honest person could put this into a science class.

Tuesday, September 10, 2002

AFLAC squawks over 'Taft Quack' ads
This is good news/bad news for Hagen. It looks bad that he is being criticized for possible trademark/copyright infringement, but he gets the link for his website out there for free. I would say the Enquirer editors might see this as a negative story, thus the belittling headline, but the attention is not negative for Hagen. Hagen will need all of the free press he can get. Taft has the money to buy all of the vomit inducing commercials anyone would need. This may be the last "good" news Hagen gets in the pages of the Enquirer.
Twitty Ends Battle, Pays $1 Fine and Retires (Resigns) from Police
I was not paying close enough attention on my way home to hear Mike Allen's press conference. The big story from his comments was this from the WLWT story:
As part of the plea, Twitty will be placed on administrative leave by the city for 90 days, and he will submit a letter of retirement with the 90-day period, according to Hamilton County Prosecutor Mike Allen.
City Manager Lemmie has stated that Twitty has submitted his letter of retirement (resignation).

I thought this might the results after the departmental disciplinary review, but things moved much faster than anyone would have thought.
Twitty guilty of attempted obstruction
This is the first article not to call this a plea bargain. He was found guilty after all, but the penalty was light.
Plea Deal Reached In Twitty Case
Plea is for one count of obstructing official business. The sentence is a fine of One Dollar and court costs. WOW!
Lt. Col. Twitty Takes a Plea
I do not know what counts he is pleading to, but I am sure they are not felonies. This is an initial story, but the precedings are going on as I type.
Source: Plea Deal Possible In Twitty Case
Grand Jury Delayed?
Lincoln Ware of 1230 the Buzz is reporting that Lt. Col Twitty's lawyer has asked Mike Allen's office to delay presenting evidence to the grand jury for 24 hours, allowing them time to consider a plea agreement. He is quoting his "sources." Since Mr. Ware has some level of friendship with Mr. Twitty, I would guess he is getting the information directly from Twitty camp, or from the Black Police Union, the Sentinels.
Judge: Nothing New On Twitty Today
Twitty looking for a deal, or Allen looking to offer one? Reports on WLW-AM today also indicate that Twitty's lawyers met with the prosecutor, but that nothing fruitful came out of the meeting. Today the 2nd grand jury is set to hear evidence about the Twitty case. It is unknown whether witnesses will be recalled, or if transcripts of testimony will instead be read. Either way conventional wisdom suggests they mostly likely will issue another set of indictments, but what on what crimes is the issue.

Monday, September 09, 2002

History teaching plan has critics
If I recall, I barely had any ancient history at all in school. I believe all of it was in the 9th grade. I had NY State history in 7th, kind of a US history in 8th, 9th was world studies, 10th was European History, and 11th was US history again. I don't really think ancient history is that important to kids. I would prefer to teach them European history from say 1300-1750, to ancient Greek history. There is just too much to cover in depth. A general world history might cover things better, where a little ancient history could be added in during high school. I will have to defer to my father, an education expert, on when kids can handle what level of historical information and context.
Cincinnati bucks crime trend
This was not a surprise. The cops stopped being proactive last year, and that is the main reason crime went up. Keith Fangman can take credit for this. His tantrums are hopefully put in check since he left office as the FOP president. I would still guess he is running for Sheriff once Simon Leis steps down. What is sad is that Fangman will win, especially if Scotty Johnson runs against him, which I think many are trying to muster him up to do. In an election between those two, I will write in Bugs Bunny, or better yet Chief Wigum.
Queen City Soapbox: Cincinnati and Miami U.
Chris Anderson has this down well. My only disagreement is that I really have never met anyone from UC who thought they got a better education than one at Miami. They may say it is just a good, but not better. That may be a little older attitude from older Alumni. I would say that is clear that the standards for getting into Miami are higher than UC, X, UK, OSU, OU and all other public schools in Ohio. The only thing I do not like about people's attitude when I tell them I went to Miami is their assumption that I was in a Fraternity. I wasn't, along with 2/3rds of the rest of the students.
Chris at Queen City Soapbox again is on point about Twitty's second grand jury, especially when he refers to my posts. Tomorrow they are slated to here testimony. I wonder how long they will take to indict him. If they do not indict Twitty, I will be shocked and amazed, and will want to know the racial make-up of the jury.
Smog Closes Tri-State Schools
I find this very hard to believe. I am not an anti-environmentalist or anything, but Smog closing school? I would have really said it was because some schools did not have air conditioning. If it's hard to breathe at school, how will it be any easier to breath at home?
USS Cincinnati caught in tug-of-war
I was thinking to myself today: where has Howard Wilkinson been? I don't know if he has been a gone or just writing story, but I have not been reading, but I am glad to read him again. I would not have a problem with bringing the USS Cincinnati here, but I don't want this to cost the City much money, if any. Newport might be a good fit for the sub, but that would be one hell of a snub to the City. I envision a pissing match ensuing, and they fallout being more finger pointing and no riverfront progress.
Tristate events mark Sept. 11
I do not plan on attending any of these events except for:
“The Longest Day: Ohio Journalists at Ground Zero,” an exhibit of on-the-scene coverage of Sept. 11 sponsored by the library in cooperation with the Cincinnati Society of Professional Journalists, will be on display Wednesday through Sept. 30 at the Main Library, 800 Vine St.
This looks interesting, and it has more depth to it than just a one-day event. I will spend my day at home, blogging away and commenting on the news coverage. I hope that the local folks let the networks do there thing, the don't localize this international story. It will make them look like vultures, well more like vultures than they already are.
Shooting raises alarm on Main St.
Ok, on this issue I could raise the usual, but instead I have to wonder if this incident is just an aberration? I thought the Main Street area already had an increased level of police presence. Do they really need more? If so, I think I will not be visited Main Street any time soon, not that I go there often anyway. I am more of a Mt. Adams guy anyway.

Sunday, September 08, 2002

The New OSU dean aims to teach others about evolution
This is one story you will not see in the Enquirer or the Post. The only problem with this story, is that I wish the Dean could have rebutted the anti-evolutionist's contentions, which amount to baseless propaganda, but a reporter is generally not equipped with much general knowledge.
'Big Ben' vs. Big Ten: Roethlisberger shines in defeat
Cleveland seems to like Miami, while Cincinnati does not, go figure?
Crime falls, jitters intensify in airport vigilance
I just do not see the Cincinnati Airport as needing that much vigilance. It is a big airport, but it is mostly deals with connecting flights, so security here is only as good as the airport where the flight originated.
Ohioans: Get bin Laden before focusing on Iraq
An interesting poll, but only of 860 randomly selected Ohioans. I have no clue as to the geographic breakdown of the poll. Did they get a cross section of people from Cincinnati, Columbus, Cleveland, Dayton, and Toledo? Or is this more of just a Columbus area poll?
Groeschen: Taft-Goshen cancellation regrettable
I am actually pleased this is the first I have heard of this. I hope this is is also the last I hear of it.
Daugherty: The little team that almost could
What the hell title is that? When Miami loses why do we get our noses rubbed in it with rude titles like "little?" I don't think Daugherty could have been any more condescending while trying to be semi-complimentary. I guess Miami is not Ohio State, and he will not give Miami credit unless we give in and act like Ohio A&M. Daugherty should really just move to Columbus if he wants McCollege Football. I will settle for a Maisonette School any day of the week.
SMITH AMOS: Twitty case
Why can't many in the black communtiy, including Mrs. Smith Amos see why certain violations of the law are different than others? Why are they comparing Twitty to Roach? I know why they are, becasue they are different races and have been charged with different crimes. They want one punishment fits all for police. Why people understand that actions take in the course of office police duties, and those taken on personal time, warranted different punishments, now matter what the scope of damage. Intent, motivation, and duty are things that differ. I also find it be offensive that many in the black community automatically assume that since Twitty got felony indictments for a car wreck, white Roach got misdemeanor indictments for actions causing the death of a man, then it must be some kind of racial injustice. They do not want to look at the facts of the cases. Many seem to think that police officer's should not be allowed to use any force in the apprehension of wanted suspects. If they do use force, they want them put in jail, assuming the suspect was black, not matter what justification existed. I find it to be bigoted and often racist how most black activists assume that because a black person is being arrested, it must be the caused by white cops and their "racism."

I feel like I am beating my head against a wall. I do not know why so many people are prejudiced against whites in this city. We are assumed to be racist by the color of our skin. We are fair game for have eggs and bottles thrown at us if we drive down Vine Street in Over-the-Rhine, which reportedly happened again after Riverfest last weekend. I do not get it. I know that some say that why I don't get it is the real problem. I am blind to their "plight." I am not blind to it, I think more than half of the "plight" of "black" people is in their heads. I am sure I am bigot and a racist for saying the obvious, but hey, I must be racist after all, I am white.
BRONSON: Men only
BronsonWatch:
Bronson is lying or at best so lazy to not take 15 minutes to find out a few facts before he put fingers to keyboard. Here(pdf file) is proof. The request made to the Masters was to "..review your polices and practices in this regard..." Martha Burk did "tell" Hootie Johnson to do anything. She made a request, which he then responded to like he was under fire from Sherman's Army. I suggest Peter read a column by Jim Caple of ESPN. It's title sums up Hootie Johnson very succulently: "Hard to take a Hootie seriously."

I know Peter regularly keeps his head in the sand, but does he even read anything outside of other conservatives’ columns? Hootie Johnson’s actions were widely viewed as foolish, and were akin to a provocation. He has the legal right to keep Augusta National in the dark ages, but for Peter to paint this is a NOW attack on his manhood is rather overblown. I think Peter should be more worried about Laura Pulfer besting him as the Enquirer’s marquee columnist, which I think she did before he even started.

Saturday, September 07, 2002

Dirty Laundry, Online for All to See
This was a huge story I missed. I for one am glad we are able to gain easy access to all court documents and data. This data is all public record, open to everyone. If you want to keep yourself secret, then don't end up in court. I have used this site very often. I used it to get a copy of the Indictment of Ron Twitty. I also have used it to look up the legal history of Nate Livingston, which is very, very long. Those who fear this are over reacting. You can't get bulk data, so telemarketers or Junk Mailers really can't do much. A stalker can still be traced by his Internet account. I am sure each visitor to the site is tracked by IP address and by ISP provider. This is just another panicky attitude of people who fear an open society. If someone wants to know where you live they can. If you file a lawsuit, and the information is in the court records, the press can find out whether it is online or not.
Cincinnati repeals ban on masks
I guess this law had good intentions, but it seemed rather silly. Changing the law to settle a lawsuit is a painless way to handle a situation that should not have really been there in the first place.
Allen's decision lauded as wise
This is a short-run pragmatic choice. In the long-run it will be a problem. The next black person, who the black person indicted against the wishes of the black activists, will get the press and attention whores out in full force claiming that white person can't sit in judgment of that person. This idea has been put forward from the hate group backers, but this gives them more fuel for future cases. Mike had no other choice. The media was not going to let go, they smelled blood, and had a pound of flesh, while looking for more.
Frailey's devotion 'dazzled' board
Only 41 years old? Does he have the needed experience for such a monumental job? He was a school board member of a different school district from where he worked. He has political blood in him, so that will have good and bad values to it. How will the community react to him? Will he get support from specific parts of the community simply because of his race? My asking that question I am sure ruffles the feathers of some, but I believe it is a fair question, which does not get asked by much of the media when the person is black.
I have my human weakness. One of them is self congratulation. I have to promote RoadSassy's comments about this blog. I also must thank Zee, editor of Roadsassy, for just reading this little attempt at amateur commentary. I will keep on blogging. I hope a few people are reading. I do wish Zee would have better options when trying to listen to Talk Radio. I was forced to turn it off several times this week. That was not a bad thing for getting more done at work, but it is a bad thing for public discourse in this city.
Coverage of the 2nd Grand Jury Announcement
Cincinnati Enquirer Twitty case to go before 2nd grand jury
Cincinnati Post Allen to start over on Twitty case
Cincinnati Business Courier Twitty indictments thrown out
WCPO Second Grand Jury To Convene To Hear Twitty Case
FOX19 Second Grand Jury to Hear Twitty Case
WLWT Twitty: Second Grand Jury To Convene
WKRC Nothing on their website as of the creation of this post
WVXU-FM A second grand jury to hear Twitty case

AP Story Pick ups:
Dayton Daily News, Akron Beacon Journal, NJ.com: NewsFlash, Columbus, GA Ledger-Enquirer
Black leaders relieved Twitty gets new jury
This article is troubling. Why does the newspaper seek out reaction from the black community? The newspaper appears to be confirming that this issue is a race issue. I, and many others, would claim this is a self-made race issue. It was made such not by those who are prosecuting Twitty, it is being made by Twitty, his advisers, and the every opportunist in the black community. This is again a sign of unfair treatment from the Media. The media is treating the black community as some type homogenous group, something most activists knowingly perpetuate. That collectivism and the “us vs. them“ mentality is one of the major causes of problems today. That kind of mentality is a bigoted and sometimes a racist attitude. If you are bigoted towards people, in this case whites, you are not going to get positive feedback from most whites. Oh, but I am sure that I will be called a racist for even thinking blacks could be bigoted or racist. Note the sarcasm in case you not awake yet this morning.

Friday, September 06, 2002

Queen City Soapbox: The First Proto-blogger
I agree in general that Paul Harvey does fit the idea of a Prot-blogger, but I just really hate Paul Harvey's bias. Chris's post references Paul Harvey’s method where he does mix his "news" with commentary. That method is one of the larger blogish characteristics. When Paul Harvey does that it makes my skin crawl. He appears to be directly referring to GOP talking points in all of his commentary. It is nothing that sounds original. Most bloggers today, liberal, conservative, libertarian, or populist all give a little bit of their own ideological spin on issues. Harvey just walks in total step the latest GOP dogma. Harvey's little "rest of the story" segments can be interesting sometimes, but I really think it is time for him to hang up the microphone.
Police Officers Shot At in Walnut Hills
"The suspect is described as African-American man with a two-inch "Afro," between 20-26 years-old, about 5'10", 180-190 pounds, wearing a white T-shirt, black jeans and armed with a handgun. "
This is a very general description. This could be the general description of 50% of the drug dealers in the city.
Second Grand Jury To Convene To Hear Twitty Case
This makes Mike Allen look like he really screwed up by not at least attempting to have Fagel removed. It looks more like he caved in to pressure. Most of the pressure that was effective came from the Media. They gave birth to this story and with help from the Buzz, made it into greatest case of guilt by suspicion I have seen in a while. Jay Love on the Buzz really comes across as either an ignorant fool, a Willie Cunningham wanna be, or just as a instigator of baseless anger. He has declared the first grand jury as "fixed", which any blind squirrel knows to be bullshit.

The one fact Jay missed all week on this issue is fact that he knows who Mr. Fagel is. The fact that that Mr. Fagel's name is known is evidence to support that he was not illegally planted on the Grand Jury. If he were not the foreman, no one would have known he was on that jury. If the "fix was in", surely they would have kept his name from being known to the public. At this point, there could have been a black police officer or another city employee on the Grand Jury. We are not going to know, under the current circumstances, but Jay does not want to think things through. He has is target. He has his Mark Furman, so he can now let the OJ part deux commence.
Lemmie refuses to delay Twitty discipline hearings
It is nice to see a good summary article from City Council. I wish there was a summary article after every Council meeting.

Lemmie’s refusal will presumably end after this afternoon’s news.
Ohio to be short two congressmen this fall
Ohio will be greatly under represented this fall in the creation of the Homeland Security Department and with the likely Iraq War Resolution that will most likely happen after the November Election. Now, I am sure conservatives are looking to say that it everyone else’s fault, but it is clearly one person's fault. That person is Governor Bob Taft. Taft refused to hold special elections, and a foolish judge agreed.
BRONSON: Abstinence works
This is the Peter Bronson I grown to loath. I was starting to feel really troubled having to agree with many of his column on the boycott and related issues. I am feeling much more at home see him be the fundamentalist prude out to indoctrinate everyone's kids with his brand of religion. I wish Peter and his conservative brethren applied their love for abstinence from sex to that of guns. Why not fight to keep guns out the hands kids, as well as keeping their "pee-pee" and "woohoo?" I would instead use the conservative's dogma back against them. Sex doesn't kill, people do!
Evendale hears new protest
This little village has no reason to be going through this nonsense. It would appear that the "protestors" are lacking in something constructive to do, and need to show their inner-city friends that they are just as much with the "movement," despite their generally higher level of success. The TV highlights of the meeting are almost like watching the clown posse of City Access Cable fame.

Thursday, September 05, 2002

Vice Mayor Calls For City Official's Resignation In Wake Of Twitty Indictment
Who is Alicia Reese trying to fool? Fagel may be a jerk, he may be snobbish bore, but why blame this man and undercut the process with baseless implications? Well, that answer is simple: she wants votes! She wants to gain votes in the black community. She has a bit of a PR problem in the black community. Calling for someone else to resign takes big balls in her case. There is more reason for her to resign for the allegations made against her, than there is for this man. The Vice Mayor looks like a cheap politician. That just might be all she is, and ever will be.
My Response to the Comments from Greg Flannery of CityBeat
I will start off by giving an apology to Doug Trapp. As Greg stated, Doug originally used the term "riot" in place of "uprising" and "rebellion", but Greg changed them. Greg then should at least be in my Media Dog House; the Hall of Shame was a bit harsh. I really do not think Greg's reasoning as to why he felt those words were better than "riot" holds up. If the intention was to illustrate the motivations of specific members of Stonewall, then I believe the way those words were used fails at that intention. The words were used in a manner that indicated a fact to the reader, not as the motivator of the people referenced. Here is the paragraph in question from the original article:

More so than the other new board members, Ford, McCleese and Bruins were energized by the social movement that followed the April 2001 uprising in Over-the-Rhine. From the rebellion emerged two new groups -- the Coalition for a Just Cincinnati and Citizens Concerned for Justice -- that joined the Black United Front in a boycott of downtown businesses.

What I found to be the problem is that the article declares that the "events" as Greg called them in his email, were not what motivated them, it was the aftermath of the events. Those events cannot honestly be called an uprising or rebellion. They were riots. I stated in my article that calling them a civil disturbance or unrest was not ideal, but they are politically positive terms for the black activist community that became generally acceptable by most of the media. They became reasonable. They were still not accurate, but they were within reason. By changing these words you spun the story to support the propaganda of boycotters.

As to Greg’s overall comments on the April 2001 riots I can only read it as revisionism. They only day with nonviolent protests was the Saturday after the Funeral of Timothy Thomas. Those were not technically illegal protests, but they were nonviolent. On the nights of rioting there was no nonviolent protests on the streets, at least none to speak of. Claiming that the riots were justified is not only wrong, it is sad. There is no justification to run around town breaking windows, throwing bricks and bottles at white motorists, looting stores, and shooting at police.

Luken's term “terrorist” was correctly used for hate groups like the "Black Fist" and the "New Black Panther Party." Those types of groups, whose members are wrapped up in with the boycott groups, are a few steps from becoming a "PLO" or "Islamic Jihad" type group. At this point the CBUF and the CJC have even been tainted by allegations of the use of threats and intimidation as stated by former Judge Nathaniel Jones. The boycott is extortion, so “terrorist” really is not a bad comparison. I can see where the timing of when Luken used it as a problem, since it was not to long after the 9/11 attacks.

What I find terrible about the entire situation, not so much of an issue with CityBeat, is that several of the boycott demands are things that I would agree with. What I cannot agree with is the means the boycotters seek to gain those demands. Instead of organizing a political campaign, they are trying to force a brand of progressive-populism on the populace with a neo-Leninist style to it. As a liberal I can find it difficult to draw a line with groups that under different circumstance I might find common causes. Instead I am pushed away and blamed for history based on the color of my skin. That is sad.

Boycott supporters vow to intensify efforts
This is yet another advertisement for the racist/bigoted boycott groups. I hope that the Black United Front boycotts all corporations in Cincinnati. I don’t know where they would then eat or buy food, clothes, medicine, or shelter. Will this boycott include not eating at Damon Lynch's restaurant? Why does the Post give these bigots a platform? Why does most of the media either cheer them on, or sit on their hands? Ask some questions Cincinnati media!. No one in any of the boycott groups would ever answer questions from someone like me. I don't care about ratings or votes. I am not afraid of being called a racist. I have already been called that, so I can look their bigotry and their racism in the eye and laugh and feel pity. I really don't know what they will do when their attention whoring no longer attracts the Johns (TV and Newspapers)? It will be a big shock. They will have to stage bigger and more outlandish incidents. This is where they will not be able to hold back the violence that bubbles in many of their supporters. That will not be pleasant to watch, but I will be watching from the comfort of my middle class chair, which they will not be able to knock me off. Their goal of revenge and separatism will not succeed. I wish they would instead get on board the mainstream, or cut out a niche that can fit into the melting pot.
Six charged in attack on bus
A handful of kids act out and it is a riot, but 150+ kids act out and it is a "wilding" or a "melee?" It would appear that race might have played a role in this incident, at least on the surface. Deerpark is a mostly white school district, while Mt. Healthy is close to mostly black. That information was missing from the story.
Prosecutors defend Twitty grand juror
" The jurors themselves picked Mr. Fagel as their foreman, the person who informs prosecutors of the jury's decision and signs the indictment." This not what the law states. (read my last post)

The real joke was Fagel's "laugh" to Luken. Fagel appears to be an arrogant ass. Luken is an ass for making that public knowledge. Why did the mayor mention anything about his conversation with the man? That sounds like something Todd Portune would do, not a form U.S. Congressman.
Rules offer insights on grand jury
Enquirer Watch:
"Q: How did Mr. Fagel become jury foreman, and what is the foreman's job?

A: The jurors select a foreman by voting. The foreman is technically the leader of the jury, but he has no more voting power than any other juror. "

Ok, this would be the case for a petit jury, but based one the Ohio Revised Code Section 2939.02 Selection of grand jury which states that "The judge of the court of common pleas may select any person who satisfies the qualifications of a juror and whose name is not included in the annual jury list or on a ballot deposited in the jury wheel or automation data processing storage drawer, or whose name is not contained in an automated data processing information storage device, to preside as foreman of the grand jury, in which event the grand jury shall consist of the foreman so selected and fourteen additional grand jurors selected from the jury wheel or by use of the automation data processing equipment and procedures in the manner provided in this section."
Today on WLW several callers who claimed to have been on grand juries support the fact that the foreperson was selected by the judge, not by the vote of the other jury members. Some of the callers were sure of this, other described a very informal process where "someone" asked who wanted to be foreperson, and only one guy raised his hand. That guy was made foreman, and that "someone" was most surely the judge.

One of many demagogues of the Buzz, Jay Love, praised this article for describing how Grand Jury selection works. I would agree, except for the section I mentioned above. Now, since the perception that this one part of the article is a little bit invalid, I am sure Jay would have to agree that this brings everything else in the article under complete suspicion. He must agree that the reporter, editor, and publisher put the fix in to mislead all of Cincinnati! Jay must now be calling for that reporter and editor to be fired!!!! The oppressors must be vanquished. We must raise ourselves, and our children. We must not let the racists force us to read newspapers!!! Reporter Brutality must be stopped! NO JUSTICE, NO PEA...........well you know.
Relpy from City Beat on My Post regarding an Article by Doug Trapp
Subj:
Date: 09/05/2002 1:37:46 PM Eastern Standard Time
From: gflannery@citybeat.com
To: CincyBlog@aol.com
CC: dtrapp@citybeat.com

Dear Brian,

I am writing to correct your statements about Doug Trapp's article on Stonewall Cincinnati.

If the use of the terms "uprising" and "rebellion" qualify a person for your journalism hall of shame, it is I, not Mr. Trapp, who deserve the nomination. Fact is, Doug used the term "riot"; in editing the article, I changed the word to "uprising" and "rebellion."

Mr. Trapp's article describes the reaction of some Stonewall activists to what happened in April 2001, saying they were "energized" by the events following the police shooting of Timothy Thomas. I think it safe to say that what the activists found "energizing" was not property damage or physical assault, but rather the spontaneous expressions of moral outrage that filled the streets. In the context of the article, "uprising" and "rebellion" are more informative and more accurate than "riot."

But perhaps more to the point, the actual violence in April 2001 was a relatively small part of what happened in the streets; far more people participated in nonviolent, albeit noisy, street protests than in any kind of activity that would qualify as "rioting." Use of the term "riot" unfairly denigrates the legitimate anger prompted by police brutality, just as Charlie Luken's use of the term "terrorists" to describe the civil-rights boycott of Cincinnati unfairly characterized their movement.

Thank you for allowing me to respond to your commentary.

Sincerely,

Greg Flannery
News editor
CityBeat


I will have a response later on tonight.
Defense upset that city lawyer headed grand jury
The defense is not upset; the defense is out tainting the jury pool. I think Sharon Zealey will be looking to get as many black people on the jury as possible. It appears she is going for a nullification defense. She will scream about a conspiracy, show no evidence of one, defame many people, and hope for a hung jury. This will end up being a mini-OJ trial, and I would not be surprised to see some of it on Court TV.

Wednesday, September 04, 2002

Queen City Soapbox: Grand Jury Follies
Chris has summed up the fracas over Stephen Fagel better than I did or could. I have just been amazed at talk radio host Jay Love's demagoguery on this entire issue. You would think Twitty has been lynched on Fountain Square. I am not sure, but I think the "Black Fist's" racist propaganda might actually be starting to sink in.
CityBeat: Stonewall Decides
This "news" article is horrible biased. I know City Beat is a progressive-populist publication, but their revisionism on recent history is not even close to objective journalism. This section of the article demonstrates this quite clearly: "McCleese and Bruins were energized by the social movement that followed the April 2001 uprising in Over-the-Rhine. From the rebellion emerged two new groups -- the Coalition for a Just Cincinnati and Citizens Concerned for Justice -- that joined the Black United Front in a boycott of downtown businesses. "

If Doug Trapp instead used "Civil Disturbance" or maybe "unrest" in place of "uprising" and "rebellion,” I would not be chastising him. Calling the April 2001 riots an “uprising” and a “rebellion” is nothing short of revisionist propaganda right from the playbook of the boycott groups. I would understand not using “riot.” I would disagree with not using it, but it is in the realm of reasonable journalism. Doug has moved away from journalism. He is nothing more than a propagandist. Doug’s story is otherwise reasonable, but placing those terms as a matter of “fact” is horrid journalism. Doing such is a form of imposing a false “truth” on his readers. Any honest reporter would shun him in a NY minute. He has made my Media Hall of Shame.
CityBeat: Your Negro Tour Guide "Can You Hear Me Now?"
I can hear, but this literary representation of a spoken word hip-hoppy poem just lost me. It might work in a coffee house, but I am not impressed with in on paper.
Action Agency to go against boycott
This was a big blow to the boycotters. It is unfortunate that this story broke the day after the Twitty Indictments. I can't emphasize enough Judge Nathaniel Jones report that the CAA board members where threatened and being intimidated by boycotters. I wish these statements were made to the police, but I don't know to level the actions reached. The next test will be the AFL-CIO dinner, followed by the Boss's concert.
SMITH AMOS: Opening lines
She brings up a good point. An indictment does not a conviction make. If Mike Allen does not have proof that Twitty's account is false, he will have to fight through a racially charged jury. One black jurist could utilize jury nullification on behalf of his/her "oppressed people" and that would send this to overtime, and conflict galore.
The Cincinnati Post Editorial: The presumption of innocence The Post gets it right except for this part: "Twitty, for his part, has maintained his innocence" Lt. Col. Twitty has never said he was innocent. His lawyer has stated such, or nearly such. That piece of this case makes me emotionally loose trust in his story. The facts make me lose most of my trust, but Twitty not having the guts to say anything himself, knocks him down a few more pegs in stature.
BRONSON: Lt. Col. Twitty
Unfortunately, Peter is correct. I must now take a shower, I feel dirty!
City official headed panel
Well this is going to be the battle cry for Twitty backers. Jay Love apparently is going to make this the topic for his show this afternoon. This is a jury-tainting tactic from Twitty's lawyer. I would like to know how this information was determined. Who made it public? Is the identity of grand jury members’ public record or secret?

This story will breed ignorant conspiracy theories that will run wild on the Buzz all day and the rest of the week. Will this be a ratings boost? I am sure they are trying to make it one.
Iron Bars Won't Silence Boycott (pdf)
I see that on this press release from the Coalition for a Just Cincinnati that Nate Livingston has been removed as a contact. I wonder why he has been removed as a contact. Could it be that he will soon be incommunicado at the county pokey? What is the most funny thing about this case is that these the other two contacts are women and this women compare Nate to past Civil Rights leaders like MLK and Mandela. How can you compare a man who has been in court for Domestic violence charges more than OJ Simpson to one of great men of the 20th century? Is that how domestic violence is rewarded in the activist community, a slap on the back in congratulations for being "elected" as co-chair of a bigoted boycott group? The same group calling Chief Streicher a wife beater elects a domestic abuser to be one of their leaders. I guess what is good for the goose is not good for one racist bigot about to be put back into jail.
More of the same, black leaders say
From the Article: “We say "No justice, no peace,' but peace is not even on the horizon,” said the Rev. Damon Lynch III, president of the Cincinnati Black United Front. “It's just no justice. Justice remains as elusive as ever for black people in Cincinnati.”
This kind of attitude bodes well for more violence and more racism on the part of Lynch's self declared constituents.
Reactions to Twitty Indictment
These reactions seem to be very one sided. I do not see much diversity in the comments chosen from area officials and "activists".
Cincinnati gears up forbig weekend
This is good press from Columbus. This weekend should be grand for the Downtown. All of the hotels are booked or nearly all booked. The games are sold out and Oktoberfest will be ready. The boycotters can do nothing to change this. I wonder if they will try, since they seem to only target Black events and entertainers, except for the Boss.

Tuesday, September 03, 2002

Queen City Soapbox: A Game of Chicken
Chris's analysis is on target, except for one issue. A second possible scenario that was raised on the radio today includes Twitty having his car towed from the park to his house. This could still fit with the theory of Twitty covering for someone else's crash, but it still leaves open the possibility he wrecked the car himself. In my opinion it is not really a crime if you hit a wall and then leave the scene. I don't think that would require a police report, unless the wall was damaged. That might explain why no indictment for hit-skip or leaving the scene of an accident. I of course could be wrong on the issue of hit-skip. The question that was not asked or not answered was, were those charges available to the grand jury. I do not know the answer, but that is the question that needs to be addressed.
I like Chris Anderson's Chris Anderson's take on my Evolution post. He agrees with my view that Evolution should in the public schools, and Intelligent Design should not. He does have a few doubts on Evolution in general, but that is a different discussion.
Hagan will back video slot machines to close deficit
I am pro-gambling, so this is positive to me, but I wonder if will get the independent libertarian vote? The religious will not vote for this, but Hagen would not get their vote anyway, excluding the minority religious vote, which will stay with Hagen in most areas.
Taft campaign takes issues on the road
Taft only got 100 people at a Cincinnati rally? That is a weak rally. An old man urinating in the middle of Fountain Square could get 100 people.
Radio Callers Sound Off
This article does not indicate the racism and the conspiracies brought up on the Buzz. That is not a surprise, since FOX19 is a partner to the Buzz. I wish the Buzz was more responsible in how it handles racist and nutty callers. They do not seem to screen anyone out, and they should consider do so.
New Clear Channel radio chief staking lower-profile path
I hope this new guy does change the horror that is commercial radio today. I doubt he will change a thing. Talk radio will continue to be the mindless right wing drivel Clear Channel likes. More intellectual gruel for the ignorant masses.
Firefighter charged with assault on son
I am surprised this has not been picked up as something more than an abusive father. No oppression claims? No pro-abuse lobbyists out there? I figured there would be a big group of "its ok to beat your kids" people populating the tri-state.
Twitty's Lawyer Reacts To Grand Jury Indictments
The lawyer is already full of crap. The police reportedly found cement residue on the car in and around where the damage was made. That is what she seems to want to avoid, as does Twitty, as does his knee jerk supporters. All she has to do is find the person who drove into his car. I am sure Mr. Twitty is qualified to search for this person himself. I even bet Scotty Johnson of the Sentinels, the black police union, would be up to help to find this person in his spare time.

I hope I don't see Twitty walking the golf courses in years to come, looking for the real reckless motorist.
Mayor Luken's Statement
Luken's words here are short, simple, and lack much of importance. There is not much he can say beyond this simple statement, and would be criticized if he said nothing.
Group protests union meeting
There is no way this union can walk out on union staffed hotels. The boycotters will loose on this one. I am pleased to see this reporter called the group of protesters "small". It is odd since their appeared to be more at Coney Island, almost two dozen, compared to the less then one dozen who protested recently at the NAACP offices.
Twitty Indicted By Grand Jury
Based on the evidence made public or reported by the media, this was a no-brainer. Twitty's case does not look good. He will have to cop a plea.

Listening to 1230 the Buzz I can only just sit in shock at level of racism, the level of ignorance, and the level of acceptance of conspiracy by the mostly black callers. People view this as part of some religious or grand movement in which they are at battle for their "race." This just drives every person with any level of honesty and sense of reality into a funk of "huh?" The same mindset seems to have taken root as did for the OJ Simpson verdict. I just do not get this group mentality. This extreme type of an "us vs. them" attitude is common in humans, but is rarely more strongly used along racial designations.

Speaking of OJ Simpson, I do have some suggestions for Twitty's defense team. These are some good slogans to use in the closing arguments of the trial, if it gets that far.
1. If you did not see the crash, you cannot give him the lash
2. Even with the cement, he must be innocent
3. Because he is black, you must assume he's under attack

They may not work, but they fit the spirit of where this trial is headed.
Cincinnati Enquirer Editorial: "Teach all the evidence"
Is this the reason why the Enquirer does not publish its editorial page on the web? I think Peter Bronson’s legacy has left its mark on the editorial board, and that is the mark of Cain!!!!! Well, in reality, it is the mark of evangelical/fundamentalist Christianity. The Enquirer editorial board is off their collective rocker. There is no credible evidence for any creationist theory yet put forth. Now, they did not use the qualifying term "credible", which I did, and that is where their argument fails. They confuse evidence with possibility. It is possible that one of the creationist variations is true. The probability that a creationist variation is true is lower than the possibility the Moon is made from cheese. Possibility is not congruent to probability, but many seem to miss the subtle difference.

There is more "evidence" that life began here on Earth via a spilled test tube from an alien kid on a field trip from the Vega Cluster School for Gifted Narns, than there is for any creationist myth, including "Intelligent Design". Intelligent Design is not a science concept, it is a philosophical concept. In fact Intelligent Design is nothing but a combination of the Teleological and Cosmological arguments for the existence of "god" found in most any basic philosophy textbook. Trying to pass this off as science is totally transparent. Any educated knows that the process of evolution is a fact, not a theory. The theory is in the details of that process, and to the “origin” of life. Most creationists do not see a difference in my explanation, but that goes with the use of flawed science. Creationists start with the assumption that a “god” exists and that the Christian Bible is infallible. Everything they come up with then cannot contradict those "facts."

The Enquirer's desire to "broaden the 'life origins' discussion in Ohio public schools" would logically be followed by the desire to broaden the discussions of the "theory" that the Earth revolves around the Sun, or the "theory" that "germs" cause disease thus making bloodletting unwarranted. Next the Enquirer will be lobbying for the Flat Earth Society along with the creationists. If they cannot see were this will lead they are not looking. Science is open to new ideas; it is not open to bad ideas that have been rejected. Holding on to your religious conviction is your right, but it is not your right to try and get every school kid exposed to them.

The effort to promote creationism is nothing more than a desire to protect and infuse a religion. This is not about open discussions. If you want an open discussion in schools, why not start with being open about sex, or the reality about drugs. The Enquirer instead just wants equal time for their religious beliefs. They want to protect their children from reality, instead of allowing them to learn about fact. The Enquirer is advocating the teaching of lies, magic and the supernatural as a regular part of science. Why not include witchcraft? That has as much place in science as their religion.

If the state school board votes to put any type of creationist dogma and propaganda, including intelligent design, into Ohio public schools the State will be the laughing stock of the nation. We will join the backward states, as the Enquirer jokes about, which have toyed with this nonsense before. This issue was settled long ago, but conservatives do not want to let go of their emotional crutch. The bible is not infallible. Religion is not science, it is not relevant to science, and it should not be part of the public school curriculum.
Grand jury indicts officer Twitty
I will follow-up with more tonight, but I will watch for what fallout occurs during the day.

Monday, September 02, 2002

No Kurt Vonnegut??? Chris at Queen City Soapbox has his list of favorite books posted. I have not heard of half of the books. I need to read more.
Eight people injured in two shootings
Is this a record for Cincinnati in a 24-hour period? Not one of these incidents was related to Riverfest. I think the enquirer should set up a crime page, keeping a running log of the violent crimes in the city or in the region. This would be good for two reasons. It would be a good crime statistic to use, and it would be good to compare to the police’s crime statistics to see who missed something or who is hold back reporting/recording them.
Group takes on 'uncool' Cincy
I am under 40, and I have no problem with the "things to do" in this city. We do lack communication. We have no good web communities or websites to build upon, mine excluded of course. We need cyber cafés, and places not geared toward the suburbanite with 2.2 kids. We don't have little local media to report on much of anything. The local media are built for families and old people. If you are under 40 not married, and have no kids, you are as good as dead to the local media outlets. The city is way to family focused, and when I say family, I mean the bland Leave it to Beaver family that suck the life blood out of any intellectual idea, because anything that a 3 year old kid can’t experience is considered to be a danger to the community. When the most influential media outlet is one geared towards 40 to 50 year old family men, you know you are going to have a beer can and quilt community. We have things to do in this city, and plenty of people to partake in them, but we are shielded from them, and we have no way to think beyond our own back yards.
Riverfest red, white and boom
"During Riverfest, Cincinnati police reported about 15 arrests for minor incidents like alcohol violations,..."
I saw no fights, no one getting beat up, no bus drivers being attacked, and there were a hell of a lot more people there than the Black Family Reunion. There were also more unsupervised teenagers from far more neighborhoods all mingled together, yet no mob violence occurred. How is this possible? I saw bikers there, I saw skater punks, I saw jocks, and preppies. How could there not have been a mob of kids fighting? Don't kids just do that? Hmm??

The fireworks were really good. I saw them from the serpentine wall, right across from Newport. It was the prime viewing location. The highlights were the spinwheels on the Taylor-Southgate Bridge, and the series of beam fireworks that arced over the crowd. I do not think it could have been much better, except I was so close I could not hear the many radios around me over the fireworks themselves.
Satan not welcome at prison
Ok, no how can anyone with a brain not see that religious freedom is not just the freedom to practice a brand of Christianity or of monotheism. Who determines what a "recognized" religion is? What authority will declare Catholics, Mormons, Baptists, and Snake Handling Protestants ok, but consider Wiccans, Satanists, and Bokononist not ok. How can anyone who advocates allowing Christian missionaries to run free in prisons, not allow any religion to run free? Many Christians are against allowing Islam to go unfettered in prisons. One such Christian is convicted felon Charles Colson, former Nixon official convicted as part of the Watergate affair. Chuck fears the rise of Islam in prisons. I must laugh at this kind of a person, this kind of hypocrite. I wonder what Peter Bronson would think about this? I would guess he would either agree or at least sympathize with the criminal Colson.

Christians cry religious bigotry when they are not given preferential treatment by the government or the media, but when they move to oppress the practice of other religions, they say the are doing their "god's" work and seem to forget about religious freedom. Theocracy is back in vogue with the red states, and it will be the death of freedom if it spreads.
Ohio's troubles pose little threat to Taft
It appear the Enquirer is one again behind the times or sees numbers in a vastly foriegn manner. The article states this: "Early polls suggest that most statewide GOP candidates will coast to victories in November. One of the newest governor's race polls, conducted Aug. 23 through Friday by a Columbus newspaper, found Mr. Hagan trailing Mr. Taft by 8 percentage points. "

But this AP story: Poll: Taft 8 percentage points ahead of Hagan tells a different story. I realize that the reporters most likely did not have this poll when they wrote this story, but that is what you get for writing the story early, and then taking vacation.
BRONSON: For whom do unions fight?
Ok, now is Bronson Union bashing or not? He bashes the public employee unions and their support for Democrats, but he praised the local AFL-CIO for not caving into the boycotters. Bronson is a shill for the GOP, the party still beholden to the Boss's small and large, yet he seems to be trying to gain the votes of union members. Does Peter want to break the unions or does he want to keep their organization and gain the votes. Is it principle or is it pure political jockeying. If you said the latter, you are today's winner of the obvious! Come on down to city hall and gain your prize: a big fat lobbyist trying to buy your vote. The rest of you will get the home version of our game "Screw the workers, gains some votes."

Sunday, September 01, 2002

Riverfest, fireworks end summer with bang
I shall be there and I will be watching for uncontrolled crowds. I wonder if Jay Love will be there, or will he be too fearful to attend?
What happened at Huntington Meadows?
A good follow-up from Greg Korte. I hope to see a follow-up in six months on what has happened with the former residents, the property, and any investigation into potential wrongdoing.
Miami stuns UNC - again
Love and honor to Miami,
Our college old and grand,
Proudly we shall ever hail thee,
Over all the land.



Alma mater now we praise thee,
Sing joyfully this lay,
Love and honor to Miami,
Forever and a day.


Fight Song Audio (RP)

Football game ends with attack
Another bunch of thugs who need to be arrested. Gee, I am saying this without knowing what their race(s) were! How about that! I can form an opinion without assuming what a person's race was. Yea for me! I will be waiting to hear on the talk shows how this event pans out vs. the aftermath of the Black Family Reunion. The race of these punk kids will define which radio station, WLW or WDBZ, devotes more time to this topic. I wish it would not, but it will.

I would raise one issue about the Enquirer printing this story. When a group of people in Over-the-Rhine attacked a motorist on Vine Street and started a mini-riot, it took Peter Bronson to report the story in his column. This story got not only newspaper space, it made at least WLWT-NBC yesterday. I again do not know the races of the kids involved, but does that have anything to do with the level of coverage this story has gotten? I do not mean the coverage because they have been black, I mean because they have been white.