Thursday, December 25, 2003

Rob Bernard Reponds

Rob Bernard responded to my post on a FOX News article. Rob makes the argument that religion should not be banned from public areas. I agree. Individuals have the constitutional right to make their religion known on a non-fixed basis. If you want to walk through fountain square carrying a cross, that is fine, as long as you don't interfere with anyone else. Erecting that cross (or Menorah or a 10' penis) is not something I find to be valid on public property. Secularized symbols of Christmas I have problem with having on public property. Santa Claus, Christmas Trees, etc are fine. They might indirectly refer to the religion, but they are not dogmatic teachings or divine symbols from Christianity.

What I don't think Rob sees is that from my point of view "sharing" should be voluntary.
I would argue that it is intolerant to keep religion out of public areas. The exclusion of religion from the public arena is simply taking another side in the religious debate. Putting up a big cross, nativity scene, menorah, Star of David or a giant Torah doesn't push your religion on others because they don't comply with that religious code. It doesn't say "join our religion and follow our beliefs or something bad will happen to you" it says "this is a symbol of what we hold dear and we want to share it." Opposing religious expression is as much a statement of religious beliefs as anything else.
Two points: First, a religious belief requires a belief in a god or gods or supernatural entities or supernatural creators. Opposing religious expression is not a religious belief, nor an expression of religion. Atheism is not a religion. Atheism is a belief, yet, but beliefs alone don't make a religion. A religion has to do with a god or the supernatural. Second point: in the above excerpt the "we" in the "is a symbol of what we hold dear and we want to share it" comment is what is the problem. This “we” is so varied that they only way to fairly determine it is not make it "we", but make it "me." If you want it on pubic property keep it to "me," if you want to make it "we" why not keep it in your church? If I want to share in your religion why can't I just go into the buildings with a big cross on top? Once I am there the "we" can share with anyone any type of in your face religious expression they wish, without any government intervention (except for established laws).

Keeping religion out of public places does not indorse atheism. The government should take a “don’t ask don’t tell” type view on religion. It should do nothing but protect the right of any individual to practice their religion and provide the ability to government workers (military, police, etc) who while on duty are unable to practice their religion. This is were military Chaplains come into play.

Also for the record, I don’t have anti-religious beliefs. Am I an atheistic-agnostic? Yes. Do I believe that all known religions are invalid? Yes. Am I against anyone being prevented from practicing their religion? NO! What I am against is people thinking that when they superimpose their religion on me or when they try to make me to comply with their religious dogma through law that they are practicing their religion. If pushing one’s religion on others is such a vital part of one’s religion (you know getting more members), then it sounds more like a Ponzi scheme.

Finally, if Rob or any religious person wants to celebrate their religion they have the constitutional right to do so. They can build a church and sing praises to “God” or “Satan” or “Ra” or “Odin” until their lungs turn blue. They can do that while walking down the street. What they can’t do is use the government to help them proselytize. The purpose of publicly expressing religion is to ADVERTISE it. Why do you advertise? To make people aware of your product. Outward expression of religion (mainly speaking about the big three monotheistic religions, but I think all apply) has two core purposes: to try and let others know what your religion is and to let others know you follow that religion. The first is a means of proselytization and second is a means of identification of compliance. That is a cold and clinical description of what outward expressions of religion are, but I don’t see any other valid explanation. If you don’t want to show off your religious beliefs, then you really would not need to express them. If you want people to act like you, what is often considered most pure is by acting upon those beliefs, instead of telling people you believe them.

Wednesday, December 24, 2003

FOP chief Update

The Enquirer has a full story today. In it Keith Fangman hints that there were sound reasons for Webster to be voted out, but did not get into it. There sounds like a huge backstory here worth telling. Will anyone ferret it out?

Tuesday, December 23, 2003

SoapBox Parking

Queen City Soapbox is Back! Ethan comments on shopping at Kenwood Town Center. He hits the parking problem and I can say that it was horrible the Saturday before this past weekend, so it must have been worse Sunday.

Let's hope Ethan and/or Chris comes back into the blogger world! The posts have been sparse over there and there commentary is missed.

Fair and Unbalanced: Faux News

A "story" on "Religious Restrictions or Religious Censorship?" is on the front page of FOX News. It is unsigned, but included a reference to a video report. I can't really find anything more biased than this so far this week. It not only paints a false picture it states this little tidbit as if it were bad:
Still, the number of bans on public displays of Christianity continue to grow. And while those symbols may have little value alone, many Christians fear that taken as a whole, that kind of intolerance will wind up creating not freedom of religion but freedom from religion in this country.
Now, first, it is not intolerant to keep religion out of public areas, that is a biased statement. It is intolerant when you feel the need to push your religion on others, just because they don't comply with your religious code. Second, what is wrong with freedom from religion? Why should I have to have my tax dollars go toward anyone else's religion practices?

What is the purpose of religious displays? The purpose and the intent are to promote the religion and gain followers, money and power. Why should certain groups be allowed to do that? I just don't understand what logical reason there would be to push religion in public areas other than to try and instill a theocracy.

What would be nice if FOX News would just give up their "Fair and Balanced" claim. With stories like this one, it is clear they don't want to be balanced, they want be biased and make the people that like them think they are being fair to "them." The "them" in this case is "us." Now when I say "us" I don't mean "them." Now again, when I say "us" I really mean "me, Al Franken."

If anyone got that poor joke/cultural reference, they might win a prize. Otherwise, just give Faux News the bird this holiday season.

Are You Shitting Me?

The Post has an editorial that sounds familiar to me. I don't know where I could have read this story before.

Oh, and you're welcome! Ah, well, you better thank Atrios instead.

A Glimmer of Hope?

The courts have dismissed a lawsuit trying to overturn the Hate Crimes Ordinance passed by City Council.

The lawsuit was brought by Sam Malone, Tom Brinkman, and CCV member Mark Miller.

Let us review here: two elected officials tried to prevent homosexuals from getting treated like the protections afford to people based on race, sex, national origin, ethnicity, and religion. Now, why would they oppose protection for homosexuals, but not oppose protections for people based on religion? Hmmm, I wonder why?

I understand how the CCV stand. They don't hold back. They hate gays. They want gays kept second class citizens or just weeded out of the society all together. What is with our two elected officials?

Brinkman is not really a mystery. He is a paleo-conservative. He wants to return to a time when a female exposing her ankles was considered public nudity.

I don't get Malone. What does he have against gays? Malone was the lone GOP pro-choice candidate for council, but he has a thing against gays. People have varied views that on some levels don't seem to go together well, at least not logically.

Webster Out as Cincinnati FOP President

Sgt. Harry Roberts is the new President. Was this voluntary or was Webster forced out? I assume it was by choice. I don't see any internal divisions in the CPD, but one never knows and the WLWT story lacks much detail.

Webster's recent actions in the wake of the Nathaniel Jones death were horrid. He fueled the flames of anger with his selfish comments at a time when he could have voiced his opinions in private, and not pissed off the black community. He will not be missed.

UPDATE: The Enquirer has the vote details. Webster was defeated in the election. He was defeated nearly 2 to 1. Fangman is back as VP. How big a deal is this? What caused the revolt?